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4 Eyes Academia
4 Eyes Academia

Episode 16 · 2 years ago

Being black in anime and games || Episode 16

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

BLACK HISTORY MONTH SPECIAL!

As it's Black History Month in the UK, we got together to discuss our first encounters with black characters in anime and video games and discussed how black people are represented and whether we are represented well. 

On this episode: @chrinkster @tudzdotexe @theprimetales

I'm welcome back to another episode of for as academia. Today we're going to be discussing our first encounters with black characters and anime and video games and we're just going to let the conversation flow from there. So this is going to be our first episode to kick off that his stream month in the UK. And Yeah, today I'm joined by Prime and Chris. Say Hi guys. Okay, so before we get into the main topic of but we just threw a round up of some recent news. So the first big piece of news we your came across this week was about soundtrack being announced three twitch. So that should allow creators and twitch outside of just partners, having access to worthy free music while streaming. So what do we think about that? I mean, look, you know how I go. You know how I feel about that low fi hipop type beat that you might listen to in it. So if it's all of that, I'm not really about it. I'm not about it at school. What's the catalog like? Do we know? Is it going to have? I don't actually know. I did join the waiting list just to see so just in case it was going to be like I'm a pot, I'm a bit partial to of low fi hip hop photers get boring. After all. I think we'd like to have some original music when we're streaming. But yeah, I'd actually know what the catalogs going to look like. But I did sign up to the waiting less. Look if we not the catalogs going to be like, and it's gonna be loads of DM. DM Music is IDM do do, do, not Edmis a lot of that. And then you know that low fi like smoking a cigarette in the back garden type music. I'm out, really, I'm not really here for it, like I'm like, give me on some patient now or some some Eurotrash. That's what I need to my background music. Sick. No, Edm, but your tresh is fine, hundred and percent answer. Who says? But anyway, just I don't know if it will provide more clarity. But the actual like announcement, sweet says, introducing soundtrack by twitch, a writes cleared music tour design specifically for twitch creators stream worried free with our highly created music library rolling out starting today. Today was September thirty. If so, yeah, don't know. So I don't mind love, I don't mind. I'm hoping it'll be a thing where, like actual musicians and produces add their music to the library as well. It's not just just standard. You are being speculative. Not Not original, not like flipping Kanye West, but you know, like produces and stuff like that. I would like to see it. You know, so, who knows what? A few Charles and it's true. We see stranger partnerships. So it's true. And there was really excited about this announcement and it came after facebook gaming and that's something similar. So maybe we're going in the more positive directions. I hope so. So hashtag could so. Yeah, another thing as well as I mean, I didn't watch it because as much as I'm Nintendo whore, I have zero expectations for like, is there expectations for directs, showcases anything like that? So I didn't watch it, but I saw all the let's not to cross the order. That's not that's that's that's the I think we should. We definitely have to do about my crust. Had to talk about it. Probably one of the biggest things. My Cross Steve is the last spect your C character. But well, I mean for me personally, I don't play minecraft. I'm not really interested in playing it, but I think it speaks volumes to have a mascot of that magnitude available and Nintendo fiar. You know I mean, because announcement broke the Internet, like broke, broke to it and literally crushed for like twenty not not for the right minutes, not for about reasons. My familiar part crush, crush, don't know, we can cut as you could do that. I mean, I respect it. They killed me. Yeah, but I mean minecraft is is massive. This one of the things, a point, some of the top five biggest franchises at the moment, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's something. And Yeah, I think it's Xbox as biggest selling game, like apparently every time, or s much something like that. Well, but yeah, I mean it's another character. It's not someone I would have hoped for in a smash direct but you know, can't complain. I think my favorite reaction to the announcement was everyone posting Sackerai and he just looks over it tired. I've seen that mean surface so time, but he's like people complain for so long and it's like we've...

...already got who we needed to get. At what point? You know, I don't know. Don't, I don't. We didn't get Goking, you man. Of Anyway, we've already got. Yeah, so sorry. The roast start of smash. Like if you saw this when you were thirteen years old, you saw this roaster, you would have think someone wopped up on you. Think it was a flash game. It's fucking but I put there's no Goku Aruta. You fucking Google could jump force tramp Oh easy, anime games. I see, I see the jump. Yes, the fans are in full course. Yes, now that's that's also taking the pista game is absolutely triple copper trash, bruce, ridiculous, as if as it is, like I saw they put in obviously mine cost Steve in like the Promo Prick. I was like this doesn't look real in it's it. That's I'll just photoshop to me in there. Said right, it's right here. Well, something I don't think this is surprised that. I think a lot of people thought he'd be in from launch. Really now, Ye, that news ten percent. Yeah, a lot of people thought would be in from launch. He was one of those characters that people just thought would be there, and I think that's why it's a little bit underwhelming because I was quite a old rumors in the past of him joining and for the most part, for a lot of smash community he's not, you know, the biggest. He's not the biggest of names in, you know, that fighting game circle. It doesn't really go back. He doesn't have like a long history of of gaming cat of gaming catalog behind him. So a lot of a lot of the smash characters that we want are characters that we've seen in the past, maybe from, you know, Super Nintendo playstation generation, and we want to see how David that to to you know, new visuals, new graphics, new art designs, can see how they incorporate a smash. So seeing minecraft Steve, it's like you know how he's going to look in the game before anyone even tells you. That's number one. Second of all, it's like, unless you play minecraft, is one of those characters out. Unless you play minecraft, you're not really going to be interested in not at you. When I was out all my craft Steve was a hell, is this rad? Who's he's Hu man. It's so my costive. I could even make picture it in my head. That's how far when we've I I'm from but anything. Well, I think of my craft. I think of that green thing that I always see, like the black mouth and the black I don't know, bro is a creeper than creepers. Thanks, blode, explode. Yeah, the ass in the wrong person. I know nothing about that game in the slightest. Yeah, YEP, so that was my craft. Steve is first hot trash baby. Another thing was, I think the full season of animes been kicking off like officially now. Yes, I watched episode one of Jiujitsu Kaysen Bro. I also checked our episode one of Burnd the witch. Okay, yeah, has anyone else been watching? Okay, so watch JJK and I read the manger in Right, but boy, I feel like that animation style makes like, when you think about like kind of making things look dark. I've I I didn't read the first chapter. Think all this is gonna be like gritty and dark and stuff like. Then the anime was like, okay, this can be like kind of like a dark crow you're taking. But I like the animation style generally. I think it's pretty clean. I think the first episode was enough to tie in to get like people that one aware of the brand or in fact that's about all. Yeah, maybe I should check this out going forward. Yeah, the OP slaps. It's so good. HMM, it's really good. But yeah, again, I haven't read the Manga bag and I can get what you mean about the atmosphere. Is Really Atmospheric. Yeah, said, I think they really set the scene. So I think they done a lot of like they've laid the foundation out enough that can and I can anticipate from the next episode. We're going to get straight into that as it's cracking baby, it's we see so corner bro. We ready. Bro. So, yeah, really excited about that thunder, which looked really cool, like beautiful gowns, like. The music is really good, the animations really Chris, but that's pluck. Sure what's going on right now, but I'm in try so I will hang in there. I'll let o'ur come back and update you, guys, and I've watched the third episode and finished it. But yeah, did the Manga get canceled for that or is that still I'm going I have no clue. I just know this. I went into it thinking it was going to be like another like thirteen episode seasonal anime, but it's just a three episode over A. I didn't realize. So it too. What's spurn the witch actually about? I couldn't tell you. Basically the same thing done. But I mean this...

...setting is set in reverse London. So basically there's the actual London and there's the reverse London. We're like dragons, but I mean the dragons exist in London, like gonna Watch that, and their account they like kill loads of people like every year, but they deaths always, like they don't know what's cooling these people. But ever reverse London to P who can see the dragons and they know that it's a dragons killing people. So there's this unit that's responsible for like extending them right and it's yeah, I was just watching it. Like we just ex really pretty. I mean I will can like colors literally, like like from that description, that description, I group reverse landon, like it's like this idea or reverse or there's no more worth that everyone lives in but then there's a negative earth and the lie of the negatively. Go into it expecting anything more complex than that. I'm like watch, it might be a good time, you know. So so we're saying, like I've pretty of existing kind of first episode. Are you saying Corpor drop. I mean I say I'll come back when I finish it, but I'll see. We'll see. But yeah, jjk, for sure that's on my watch list percent. I usually don't keep up with seasonal anime unless I'm really helped by at least like the third episode. I think the last time I watch something as it was airing was door head or, which was amazing delicious. So yeah, I think we're getting old and my backlogs too heavy. I can't hang in there for the sake of it. If I don't like something, I'm just gonna drop it. That's my mantra. Fair enough, I think. And a showotie or fire force is probably a good one to pick up in terms of like recent anime. That's that's doing bits. But then I'm slightly biased because it's by the same crea as Sola and I saw some recent road for since to like death, the kid, Black Star and the general kind of like Shitney Gum. He's so but that's just me. But, like generally, I think something much that one is the character did that. The character designs alone like fascinate me. The fire force do. Besides, I mean like the black ones, like whatever we're gonna get into those because those top Oh, oh, farm, you're gonna get into that. We go and get into but yeah, it's ties. So, yeah, I didn't think that's all the news, but yeah, that's whatever. It was onything else. What's else? Like cyberpunk? There was a bit of a Bob. Oh, yeah, they're saying that. Oh, sorry, we're gonna SNEDGE my promos. Not a crunch und six mandatory days, isn't it? Yeah, so, yeah, I'm in two minds about it. Like the hammer and sickle and me is like, Oh, we should have to stand for these kind of working conditions. About the what is it? Socialism? Crime? It's I see it, I haven't. I get it. We get it, I get it. Sorry, that's this whole I mean, the discourse around working conditions for game deaves is nothing new. They actually like crab. I think crunching Kneeja in general is a common practice. But I think the debate is all around should we accept it as going to practice, like, is this ethical? People were saying they didn't mind Sager punk being delayed again to avoid it. Y'All a life. It's just something to be expected in video games and like crunch is inevitable. So I don't know where we are standing it, I think. I think it's always an inevitable I feel like in all expects of business, when it comes down to a launch time or project launch is always going to be very intense. Yeah, because you're trying to get everything right and make sure everything's perfect in the last minute and usually during that time is when you find the most mistakes. So trying to sort that out with a limited time, with a fixed release date, is always going to be a bit hard to do. So I don't know if there's much you can do about taking that away. I think that's just an element of business. I think trying to improve the conditions may help, but it's always going to be there. I think there was even something does an article basically saying how, even with a delayed release time, crunch is still there or can be even worse. I guess my thing is is just I find it just interesting that even in the middle of a global pandemic like the show just has to go pursue their as normal, like yeah, yes, business with the ex effect it as at all. And I...

...think my main issue with it was the fact that I think we all expect this kind of things to happen within video games, but I think it was what studio was it that got a lot of back lash. You know, a dog got off backlash for they were treating their workers, and it seemed as if other studios in CONDEN CD project right. We're like, Oh, this isn't how we treat are workers. We promised not to. And then it's like, oh, leading up to launch, obviously we're gonna have to crunch. Now, okay, but coming out very soon. It's just like, why take that kind of high ground when I think, I don't know, I think all of it is just like. I love key thinks there's a slight difference in the center. Not, you dog won't losing a great game like that. That's the best. That's that's that's the first problem. And it happened outside of pandemic time. So you know, not your don't go just pieces piece. What we saying. It stinks. That's of US too. Hey, Bro I didn't say that. I didn't say nothing like that. I'm not going to have anyone fight me. I'm just saying last as two is, I saw US two in it. Like I've heard, the story is whelming. At best. I think the story shoves the whole kind of like is raal palace Dane complete. Is Not even subtle, like Bro it's like you could have expected the place to be a bit more intelligent than that. It's just overt like this faction is Israel. This fact represents flor sign in this. But yeah, now I get it, but I feel like I'm the reason. I really think this is different. Proceid you put it read. Is that so? Points again, that kind of at least sixty percent of the game, as I know are anticipating at least sixty percent of the games on there, and with it being such like a highland spread release and like it was, it's amazing. There's a lot going into I feel like last houses fairly linear in terms of the story. I feel like it's a point there's three different story and you can go down which obviously have twisting and consequential kind of decisions. I thought it's a very multi layed, multi fast game, as at to us, like your shifting out, kind of like a game of a fairly straightforward story charming. So yeah, I also think that I will talk about like crunch time, like like happens with all types of media I worked. I worked an advertising when some time were releasing their phones. Bro I was there on to twelve o'clock on a regular basis. How how seem to like release? Would you be crunching there when you were working weeks or months? At least a month or two at least, because I think, because I think the crunch leading up to release is inevitable no matter what you're releasing, because when the product has to come out you have to just make sure everything is yeah, I think where the real kind of her bub around it was was coming up was those like whistleblowers or from the inside saying that the spokes people and making it see, my crunch was just happening in the weeks or months up to release. What really digging for at least a year fins game, and that's where I think, yeah, it gets a bit MMM enough. Yeah, who really knows what's happening in that studio apart from the people he's working there? I think fair enough. Cool to just swing the session back to our main topic. We are going to be discussing our earliest encounters with black characters in video games and anime, and I think it would be kind of fun as well to just talk about our experiences were just being black in the different fandoms and just like black Moos in those two spaces. Yet just yeah, I think. Okay, I did this out. I'm trying to think of a question. Took it this on. We're gonna start this. Okay, okay, I can go act. So, yeah, I think a good question to start off with it would be, I'm gonna give a video games, because I think because we like video games, like video games around here, and also, I think I just I was we all watched anime is kids, but I think we kind of figured out what animal was afterwards, after watching what were games. Is Pretty Straight. Yeh, would earliest black characters who either identified with or could identify in video games? Oh my God, it was Eddie Guerrero. Also poured out. He said the cold dissecting man's name. You made it Domini can and I like anymore black an extra. I'm sorry. Are you go there from Teken? Yeah, I was this close to learning Caperetta because of it. But yeah, I think what made you relate to him, it's an interesting pick. Is the drugs. I'm sure of it. I'm sure he was obviously black. He wasn't just Tan or dark skinned, he was a black guy. He was busily in her dread. She was doing Caperetta, like can we go put on my king? In that same break it was I'll do enough. He's black or that, we don't know what it is. Damn, I'm making up. Seen his army's basically saying that a tiger is black. Actually, I'm a king was like a...

...leopard. I hope you know, but I'm just trying another whatever. It's all get ton. But yeah, moving and some more serious matters. Any good at going? Are you go there? That's the first one in video games really, just off the top, I think that was the first character who was canna having. I think for me the first one I remember seeing was bat wrong from s fire. I remember seeing him. I didn't really relate to him, not because he's a bit of a brainless brutes and for no reason, just punching people up and everything was about money and he's fight money sound. I think the first character that I looked at, so while they're black and they're pretty cool, probably sean from Stut fire. That's right history. He just look cool. He didn't look like a caricature. He had cool hair. It was a bit of racism with these basket wool quiable going on, but for the most party look pretty good. You look pretty good as a character. So he's probably the first one, the one that I really remember that stuck as a black character that I saw. Wow, he's actually like a normal black person. was now, but legit. Yes, really, really was probably a coach from left for dead. HMM. He he just seemed like a normal, you know, thirty something year old black man. You know, think, no no frills, no crazy, you know, talking about chicken, barbecue, sauce, nothing like that journey putting hot sauceking, not that I remember anyway. They may commit to my knowledge, I remember seeing him as a game, but US is a decently made character. Yeah, I think the first one that I can remember, I'm even a good way. Well, I could just generally remember it, is Zach is. I think it's like from dead a life. That sounds right. Yeah, I think his names. That could the one that kind of like has the most madice of costumes. I think you've got like an alien costume. That he's probably I think that's one I came but I think the first I was I was kind of cool outside of Eddie End. Obviously he's counterpart, tiger, was raven again from taking as out, like he's a he's black and he's like a like a Ninja that he's doing some he's kind of cool, like you know, I like Ninja's so I like I like Raven M. I think the judging from everyone's responses, the one thing in common all these characters have is that their characters in the video game who just happened to be black. There's not like a spectacle made around their blackness. They don't want to like shove it in anyone's face, like this is a black person, you haven't got like an Africa, an Afro and like big loops and all that stuff. Well, you could argued out a bar Rog yess, yeah, he didn't look up to Baurog. That's I gave another example, the one you actually like, the one you actually like. Oh that's a cool black guy just happened to be a cool character who was also black. Hmm, I think that's another good one for from actually the saying the same game was Elena's very true Elena from stew fighter three. I come wish when she came in, she might being you do it first act. She came in a friend of generation. She might be new generations, but I remember her most on first strike. Yeah, but anyways, she fus three and then she was pretty cool. I mean she had like triballistic body parts, but a body parts. But yeah, like she had the extremely monologs, the markings and markings and all sorts. So it did seem like they did a bit of research. Yeah, and so you know some sub Saharan African cultures. For the most part it's like, yeah, she was a good she was a good character. Her feme is like the best in the game as all what I think beats in my head of the yeah, that's a book will come. Come. We talk about Brooke as a as a character, or I talk about gaming characters. I'm Brooks in pot come on, reds and blue. Brock is not. The fingers doesn't count the thing because it's because in black and white and he's not and he's not black. Really, this is an interesting point to raise. Thing like how do we know that? It doesn't know. That's it. That's that's my rational we move is. That's an interesting point to raise, though there's characters...

...who are like yeah, this is a black character, like dust cannon, and there's also characters that black people have just decided unanimously that are black. Might not necessarily be black, but it's interesting part to talk about, like how Fanta like projects blackness for whatever reason. Like I think it's lights. Yep, I'm started off as bad. So at least after it was banned, some of the jump, but apparently some people who have just accepted him as black, black and far over the yeah, he's easy. It's the uncle Phil Element. I guess that you think, yeah, picculess's doctor to go hard, but he's not. We're gonna do what we're not talking about. You did meet everything I just said. Of Up. No, that's question. Hello, Megan, you can ye, seen. Remember someone was making a list of means that. I think people this is where people don't realize how it's like. Okay, Japan is an imogeneous nation as well. Obviously I need to look different ethnicities within Japan that look like Megan. Apparently, if you're not white, if you're not why black, that it has got a little bit of curling that and you're time up and you'RE gonna say we're gonna say Yugi's black as well. You give me no, but Tristan's black note is hi topos Tristan. All right, cool me, let me. I'M gonna meet my head out anyway. Tristan, you're so doing you can know, I think. Yeah, that's where people just need to like do a bit more reading. You can be Japanese and look like Megan. There's other defnicities within Japan, especially like back then. I I said I'M gonna start. Sorry, sorry, Joe, might be. It might be the case. You know. I mean how do you meet someone in the change? But yeah, I think. I mean when we think about is I yes, I think, because when we started, like if we're going to go into animals, I speak, and maybe even gaming as well, because we were like always looking for kind of like points of reference at ally, that character is like me, and were, why would't say all of us, but a lot of us, were looking kind of for that that inspiration terms of gaming or anime, like Oh, that person looks like me, and that's when that kind of you start to kind of any any slightly non white shade. He's one of us, may is. He's one of us. I did that you know? Yeah, I don't think. I don't know. I have a but I feel like I've come social media and obviously social media tends to be like a broader perspective also then a bubble. But I've seen, like a lot of people, like the the go the Piccolo is black thing. I didn't know it was a thing. I'm SORTA I was a joke up until like last nobody and was your what is started off as a jail that most things do onions and the joke develops. It's on subculture and to the fact where where people actually believe this is the truth. That happens so many times. Some things. I said it. They said these Va's got a deep voice. So you know, that's that's very all. Michael a black, awesome. So I mean Travis Walium also has a deep voices. That mean Roy is is black forms. You never know, they'll say dark vadeers black as well. I'll be lucky. Where as air forces Bro Black, air forces, he's got to be black. Could use expressed by crime. I'm not shared by when Jordans Isthmia. Oh yeah, Asti one high beast type beast. Chris, I see. You know, worldans why I like legit do the vader. Where's students? I watched that wars child. So these were nearly eleven, I thought. I think. I think the thing with the representation thing you don't know that you need it until you know what you need it kind. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the reason why black pants foot made one billion dollars. Yeah, exactly later. And that's a problem because by the time, by the time you understand how important representation is, you can find the people you wantant today's age, with, you know, the Internet as big as it is, you can find the representations, you can find everything you need to. But when it was especially like when we were growing up, and I hate to sound this old, but like we had most of our our you know, interactions with characters, new anime, new games, was all very scarce. You get a new game once, maybe every six months, and you'd see whatever...

...was on BBC one to to channel five or whatever, and that would be your scope of anime and representation and everything up. When, you owe, when the Internet is expanded, when we see that there's whole subcultures, when we see those massive groups of, you know, black anime gaming fans, then you know where to go. And you don't really need it as much. But before then, yeah, actually baffled me that it was people. There's black people out there that watched anime in secret. Yeah, I get that. But yeah, I think there is a kind of relate because, like, I never kept it a secret. It's just that when I was in school and none of my other friends were into it, they didn't like. I wasn't shinning or judge for it was just they couldn't relate. Until microblogging sites like to, like Tomba, became more popular, I couldn't really interact with other fans. Just I'd watch it when I get home. Yeah, I agree. I feel like like like remember, I think throw like before. But anime wasn't pop culture until, like, you know, become a bit more mainstream, and I think that was then pushed largely by a lot of black people been drawing anime in public and or in secret as well. So I think that people are pop culture. So Gang Gang. Yeah, it's weird, especially in my perspective, because I grew up around a lot of people who did watch anime, who did read at Manga, who played games, and not only not only just played games, who played games competitively, you know, like your your Super Smash Protheros guys, just you fights, you competitor. I grew up around a lot of that and it wasn't until I started, you know, using social media that I found people were playing these games and seek for finding meeting up in cafes to discuss stuff, and it's like wow, right for me I was quite lucky, but there's a lot of people who literally didn't have anyone to didn't have anyone to help him. Help. Yeah, they help him? Essentially? No, but I got I think, I think gaming has been mainstreaming longer than hundred percent that I grew up around people who played games casually, but it was still like you could talk about it freely. anime. It was a different story until I got into social media. person but I heard me out, like obviously, when I grew up, I was I was playing UK and and I was like that only black kid that was playing. You can secondary school that I was. I was a nut like you. Year I was out as Oh my God, that that Christ is meant. He's a nerd, like he's a like neck rolls and, you know, black fam or other stuff. He smelt sort of thing and don't be so hard in yourself. No, God, no, I was sure different and I had to die set much old took broke, like it was like like I was like I was normal, like socially like, but obviously it's like I was a nerd. I I'm like, yeah, that's me with my chest, like it all makes sense now. I'm so dune. I said, I don't say that. This is this is all going to talk about. We're going to first about that when I was wrong. I hate you guys. Might Anyway to land my point. Yeah, is that Christ? All right, cool, that's a good idea. Yea To land my point. Yeah, basically, I feel like the reason why a lot of, like you said, people watching and playing games of secrets because, like, it was a bit nerdy and no one really want to be known as I can outright nerd everyone's hand about all me be a bit that more social acceptable, when obviously some people might have been brazen about it and had the episodes that you go the order to do it, but not everyone was as brave as likes of you, Chris, when all your friends are playing games and you're just one of many. Yeah, I've spoken about this a lot of a lot of the time, especially especially with games. Like, first of all, growing up in school from yes seven we had a playstation club in my school. So it was a club where people, uhe just play. I mean even before that premise we's to bring up handhelds in. So, yeah, commy school. We all did that. In Secondary School we had a play Asian club where it was nicely Teken, so you can sit around, did wait to turn. Is kind of like a whin. It stays on play Teken. I new schools. And then, when I mean schools, I was a battle food club where they had maybe like sixteen computers in the science room but were all connected via land and would play sixteen playing battlefield wow. And that was a kind of stuff where that even popular people in my school. We're going to so, especially playing games. It was never really shown or you never really got put down for playing games. I think some people would have got put down for playing certain games. Do remember a slight period where people were thinking, I nintendo games of babies. You know, there was...

...that era. But other than that I've always I've always had gaming as a normal thing where where we're yeah, I think actually I wasn't filling the whole chief. There were good nerdy like I went to a Hook I was I wasn't not to. I went an all girl secondary school and they were like nerdy girls who were like internect gaming and anime and stuff, but I could not relate to them on any other level. So I never really like spent time with them. My other friends, who are mostly black as well, I had more in common with them, even though they didn't understand anything about my nerdia interests. So I kind of just like in school, I just didn't. I kept that to myself. It was all when I went home, I could get online. I do. I'd give ums. Yeah, the girls are my I feel. It's feels so like weird to like look down and people, but looking down in them, they were just a bit too nerdy and I think people look at me like I'm a Weirdo. So you can imagine how these girls were like into it. If I was like Nah, does get like that? You do find people where you like they are. Do you have a personality outside of this? Exactly? Exactly, yeah, but I try and pride myself and being multifaceted, but a lot of people all they have is yeah, games, not. Some people say even games. It's game, it's one game, game or cats, literally literally. I've seen people who like they play, for example, call of duty and that's it. HMM, like that's it, nothing else, no other interest at all. Don't play any other games. They you should fee is a full of call of duty. They don't buy any other games and even get free games. They spend all their time playing call of duty and you start to think there's a fine line between being called a game of a game up and maybe, I don't know, a cool of Dutier Jeremy, was you off my? I mean it's the case of a lot of games. You'll find out of games like that, games of extreme followings. Likely are he would counter strikes. League of Legend. Yeah, yeah, you'll find a lot of people are. It was a seven. One else was grown up. That's where everyone was into. That was nuts. That's that. When I was going to puse S, seven s or did I every every race, every creed when I was in tecndary schools, just as seven just weird. Never played it for seven. Yeah, I've heard of s for league, but nice seven is its for. I like neither of these for I said seven. I feel like that the kind that had like anime kind of character discess for is it actually? Yeah, and it was like that. You can like a sword and like a gun as well in it. Yes, fully, yeah, there's full league. See, that wasn't I wasn't that deep investing. I played. Actually it was good. It was good, but my intechnnection and my hand movements weren't that great. Bro and my built kind of game and stuff. Yeah, I have quite a few. I had quite a few friends who all like played different things. So I friends that played fighters, friends that played the RPG's, friends that play the Party family games. So it was quite nice. I kind of got like a good background in all genres. To be honest, I don't think there's a genre. I haven't I don't that. I don't think it's a general winders a game. Well, I can't find a game I like in that genre, to be honest. Real time strategies, turn based all it. Sure there's at least one game. Yeah, and does dearly gener I can't get into our shooters FPS games, but I'll play any people and sports games, which is weird because I know growing up FIFA ninety seven was my favorite game for whatever. Spoken about this before, not that him, but growing up now, it could have put me in from the FIFA. Didn't know what to do. But yeah, I don't put me in from of you and fed up. Okay, these guys are some less. That's what I bring here. Oh, did you know? I'm fed up, but not because, not just because it's because it's bad, but stressful. Just losing on that game is extremely St same of call of duty, same cool ju getting killed on like war zone, for example, here, like you can't go to work and come back home, home and be stressed. Facts, facts, it doesn't make sense. First say, that's my thing with said. Some of it is. It can be furiating. Yeah, that's crazy. We still play him. Yeah, thanks. I think to bring it back up to you like, I think an interesting thing to discuss it be. Okay, we look at how black compresentation anime and how like you think of Japanese society and don't really expect much. So when we do...

...see a character that's represented with respect, we're like, we like please to see it, and then kind of just like relate that to you black animators and designers and illustrators who are like taking things into their own hands. So I think we speak about this in our like news around up several episodes ago, these African American brothers who basically set up an animation studio in Tokyo. Think I'm going to butcher the name, but it starts thy Joe, day Joe. Yeah, and like get there, I don't know, and like this is not to sound shady, but sometimes you see like Fran created stuff and it's like you could tell. It's like I created and created its about. It's still great, but you can tell like, you know, this is just like a project, a creative project for some people. But you know, if you just go on their website for dartch ty Joe, it's very like clean and very professional, very like, and you see some of the animation that it looks like it's a big budget anime studio, but when you go to there about stick page, you find it actually is these two brothers, some the states who live in Japan who sell the animations to you. Yeah, I think because makes me feel really like, you know, interested and excited to see what they come out with, and it kind of reminds me of Riend the boondocks first game out which is an anime, depending on who you ask, is the incident where was animated the green dogs. Hmm, I still there are a lot of Korean anime is working on the boon docks, right. Yeah, I'm for Christ Kim Soon Jiung, I think. Yeah, yeah, I've Holdt Jos, the studio. They did the weekends ladies music video called one. I'm trying to remember, but I remember like the like the basic creative director before or lead animator for Boondocks is Korean. Yes, Koreana. There's a bunch of Korean anime is working on that. Well, now we're in a we're in a dark place where we have to figure out if you have Korean animators working in US animation studios producing US based animated content. Is An anime with a cartoon? I think if you're asking me, I'd say it's an anime inspired cartoon. I think just because of what anime kind of like translates to in English, I just assumed that it had to be. It's had all had to be something that comes from a Japanese animation studio to be anime. There's things are obviously would you can say the animals, but we they're inspired by a like being docks, like the last Anatole. I agree. I agree. I feel like the the the origin of the studio is probably what will make the biggest differential between anime and a cartoon. urger it's where the lots are, large of the push and influence and will generally be sticked from German. Yeah, because I'm sure a lot of cartoons that we watch have, you know, Japanese animators. So yeah, yeah, I love, well, you know US based animations anyway. Oh yeah, but to bring about that dark star Jo Dude, and I think what they're doing is put on, as we discussed representation that we should really talk about. Like there's those anime cos that we've seen them just been absolutely butchered in terms of you're just taking the Piss, in terms of is this meant to be someone black out, like are you taking the piss sort of thing, like dragon. Wassi has a few of them. Like I feel like dragon was easy to say, look, if we're going to be racist, and you're like, I show, doesn't matter. Like they've got Mr obviously as kind of like the first point of reference. I feel like a lot of their characters just had like like Um, like like almost even almost just straight racism, like in the turn of the lips, like I never see them on their characters have like normal, like go coke t ap lips, always like massive, like featuring type sweet slips. It just doesn't make sense to me that. But I feel like we would like, like I think we discussed again in previous another episode where we'll talk about how representation matters. But are you going to be mad that a Japanese studio has chosen to put you in there and they've butchered the way you look, or do you expect them to kind of find once they put you in they should do the due diligence and make you look black? Not to get on my soapbox or anything, but I mean, Auntie, blackness is global, then West or otherwise is global, and I think where the I give them a past in terms of, okay, this is a homogeneous society. Any kind of depiction of blackness they're going to know would be from media, especially Western media. How black people because depicted in western media and how does that, in you know, affect how other cultures represent black people as well? On the flip side of that, whenever we see the European characters and anime they always look European, but at the same time Japanese characters also look...

European and many animes. So it's just like it's just too many layers to guarantee. I think my my response to that is that I don't particularly care how black people are depicted in anime for the most part, especially now. I think I'm more privileged to be able to say that now because, as we think Chris raised before, there's just a plethora of series to get into. If you want to find us, you will find it, and we've got animators like La Shawn Thomas, like Darstego, who are creating their own things, and even within like Japanese animation studios that are several black characters we can see that are depicted respectfully. Yeah, you see characters like Mr Paper, which is even like a more like older example. There's more recent ones like what's their character in one? Punch man, things like dark shine. It's just respect. He looks like a human, he looks like an Antmorphi fizs like oil, spiel like and his name is stupid, like Oh yeah, and he's all shining increase in it. Signing. He looks like something that show cc capt that Daniels, like okay, but then you see characters like ok s Marie, like the running fire force, who are also recent examples, just just like if you see a black character depicting in a certain way, we can just assume that is deliberate because other than poor again, it's air. That's a really good point to me, because what are your favorite depictions of black people and anime? I've ever watch fireface, but I'm really impressed it. How Bro Actor and even like okay, it's really it can be like borderline Corny, like he's got these like Eurobun your yeah, but it's it's been some reasons. The cultural references there obviously a part of like your Rup and spare, when they says, all right, Fella, it's that you're before just that. Okay, sure, at least you said you're a Bolla. Must know that is we gare. Yeah, just on Lyst you can do know N is. I say, yeah, I think the boys, though, but you can at least tell the character how the boys we're gonna get. We're gonna get. That's cool. Wizards Consort, see burn a boy sparing fire force. The name is right here, boy, take it. Let's says. It's okay, it's so we sort good. Yeah, I think. I think yet the boys at the USCORE. It stucks raining, it's in Hell and all that, but I think it's just like who does, at least the surface level, interest in a specific African culture here? That's cool, you know, it's a baby steps. You know, Pakromo, par driver. I was spoke. I'm look stuck up, but I feel like, like, like I think in terms of my favorite cat as I've seen more reason. I think Tj from a pier run man, which is currently are and is one of my like new kind of favorite black outs, because it's like, I like Geojo and the cart, like the way they ever exaggerated stuff, and I feel like Tj in terms of the world that you're saying, it's very unlike race across the world type and he's like black, blacky, black black. He's a obviously there's kind of some pisstakes, like him wearing like both on Bighetto blaster, but he's like excuse me, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna just skip past that. This is I beg up. I beg your part apart now now hear me out here, me, I'm my brothers and sister, so glad I can see you. Off afficial express. Yeah, it's good, Ye, get it. Oh God. Okay, so obviously it's called a boom box. Naturally in it, but obviously that no way. What is this thing? IS IS WEAPON? No, no, it's just like it's like a speaker like this, course his character. What's the speaker for this music? Yeah, I literally he got. He comes up like this hip hop. Yeah, he passes hit up when he leaves at the front. I was thinking the facen't even though. No, no, I'M gonna don't it. Like he comes like a classy event, like drops. He's like he's boom box, leaves up for such. He's boom box, like this is cocky. Yes, it leaves it like the concert sh and just kind of books train. This is not the first principal and Droyes. Yes, yes, it is. It is that, oh my God, but but I had me, I am out like his designers. Cool, we got a long way to go. We've got a long way, very long way to go. But yeah, that's another reason why I'm just like, boom box, fuck off. In Two and twenty I think it's one of those things where...

...you want something done right, you have to do it yourself, which is why I'm going to look to people like Dutch tyger and like animates is written any things. I'm not going to expect much from like jackness animated studios because, like why? But when we do see like depictions of black characters, and you can get any you could take, you can take the bare minimum, like I like this cool aspect that this character and not going to get it right all the time, but it's time to stop expecting them to do and just like way I think a boom box. Anyway, I think I think my mom my favorite depiction of an anime character is probably a canary from Monte Santa's character. To I think she just looks. It looks like someone has seen a black person before, family like when they when they've designed her in this a black girl before and the like. Yet, like, the thing is some of for example, black people have, you know, tend to have slightly larger lips, slightly have slightly more rounded noses, but it's not to the extremes in which you see it. And a lot of the older anime row we're it's like a it's almost like a would you call it Golly Walker? Yes, it's a Golliwog. It's like a members like the boogers show. That's the one that's dress like A. it's like a blow up Hula Hoop around their lips. That's kind of pink. It's just really yeah, and the victual just called me like a, like the end with the hard yard, the end every time that coat comes in screens. Okay, sorry, that's a good point. Back Canary, because her features are pronounced. You can tell us the black. Yeah, you can tell them black character, but it's not taking the PISS. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it looks like some thoughts actually gone into the creation of her hair as well. So, yeah, for see her. I'm a big fan of that. Very cool design. Actually think Hunter Hunter has a does that where you do see black latter sometimes it does seem to take the care of that. Yeah, the Healer, he heals people's yes, he wasn't. The exasist. The then exist. That's it. Yeah, it's not. Sounds cool him as well. And the other guy with the dreads who talks to dogs. Can't remember he was in York Yor can you. Wow, that's not he was killed. He was killed in your league, everyone, or can you? Yeah, he was going to be. He had a pretty good design as well, so I think we'll give that to you, Tagashu. HMM, yeah, that's pretty well question. We know about black series and black animations. Do you not think there's like some are just like incredibly bad? Like not to pick on particular animas, but in the reference near Yoki here. Oh Yeah, okay, let's talk about it. Like we want representation and we feel like, you know, the your kind of like if we want to, like you said, if you're on the if you want anime done right in terms of breaths and black people, you want to done come about by a black person, and you get near your near Yoka, which right, okay, they've gotten black designs correct, but the content is a trash. M Yeah, yeak is an interesting one because I'm happy it exists. HMM. I'm also not going to watch it, ever, but I'm very happy it exists. The fact that Jaden's myth can just say on, we can animate and about me and exists and people were talking about it favorably or otherwise. I think it is cooled that it exists, I think before it becomes more, what like widely accessible to find, like anime by blacks years, I think anything we get is good, is a good addition to the landscape. Personally, I forget about for a time as well. Really good, really, I was just about to mention that. That's probably one of my favorite. You know what it is? It's one of my favorite shorts, anime, Short series, and the thing is it's like the creators. I it was so its done so well that I thought it was partly produced in the US. Yes, yes, that's how well, was it not? I don't think so. It's all in Japan. I'm pretty I believe so, but I really routles me that they've got Samuel Jackson as of Ye, but you know what? That that's why I ses to show. That just goes to show that they've taken time to think. Who can we get to represent this anime and have a good dub? Who's going to do the DUB some justice? They could have got any old person. Who Got Michael Jordan? Me? Fortunately they got someone with, you know, a great you could do one and carver lip. Yeah, greatly we go. We've got a great not just not just voice out to a great actor, HMM, in general, who managed to voice well...

...the voices of Afro and Ninja, Ninja, hmm. So, and it was done so it's done so well you don't even want to watch a subversion. Yeah, yeah, that's that's how well it's. It was up to neither did. I mean Bro I think might. I'm remember hearing at the time they paid him like a million balance episode. The better did, like he did, better have done, and don't forget that. Like that as a whole holistically was good in terms of music choice as well. Yeah, it was. It was a very kind of like it felt, not say, not say it felt black, but like it was like like there was hip hop refly, like the hit pop on a. that's it. That's that's the best way to put it. I'm trying to find the right English, a good blend of culture as well as yeah, not in your because it's so easy to do an in your face, or just a Japanese setting with hip hop references. No, it just felt very natural. Yeah, even though, even though it were setting like an historical time, day and like everything just fit together. HMM. I taught it again. It speak some years. You've actually led me on to a great point, actually prime, because now we have an actual black artist, black British artist, MMM, who has music in anime. Chaining. So it's chaining. Oh yeah, he's got his own I think he's done work with Jiujitsu kaizing. Shut up. Yeah, wow, his music is going to be in the anime big, big DUB. Well, that is that is massive, absolutely massive. I'm more forward that I thought. I like his music even I even, as I before, animeer, but I feel like generally he's music because it is is easy to digest. He's consume. So then that, combined with producer Kaisen, in itself, is a yeah, they missed talk about animated season, like I think when I think, the episode has been like online for like over two weeks now, but when the premiered officially, it was like trending. Yeah, number one, jitsu cousin. So that's really, really huge. I remember seeing the tweeting posted, like I think I scored past you play, because all that's cool, but I just want a black guy that I think I just assumed it would be an American person. He was. Yeah, I thought, that's still really like big. I went back and I saw it was j Ling girl and I just thought that was amazing. So, yeah, more for so it's like, I don't know if this is like not as light hearted, but the video on the garden, what's the actual title that we were featured in? Not Glad you I didn't. I didn't watch enough. I just go to the bottom see description to see that we're in it. I watched it, not to the end. The dislike to like ratio on that video is something. Swear it is appalling. I just wanted to think I would see dig into the psychology behind the backlash, which I think that relates back to the fact that culture is yeah, with an anime fand them like this is not the most healthiest community, but it's better now than before, but it's still make good. So like online spheres, as and Bro. I think there's this thing where if you, as a black anime fan, points out a racist depiction of a black anime character, people say you're the problem. Yeah, but why are you making a big deal out of it? What did you expect? Japan's and homogeneous society like like terrformers making excuses. Yeah, and I think before I developed because of cool thinking skills. I would like, why are you like making a big deal of it, as Japan even know what black people look like when you give cut them some slack. But it's true, like what we talked about before, they know how to draw white characters. Probably. Yeah, other you get others, but manarkas and animators in the our to door black characters. Probably. So if someone isn't, you can only assume that they either they just ignorant or they're doing it deliberately. So, yeah, I just think it's interesting that there's so much backlash. If I find the actual like video, there's like, I think, two thousand dislikes and one hundred likes. It's like people did not like what's the points the people were saying in their video? Yeah, and I like people did it like that. People were annoyed that certain characters are depicted like monkeys. Yeah, I thought very interesting that such a bag like a like a big kind of ones, because she's like like let's also, but now, since it is black, austy moth. I thought this is going to be like we are a black podcast and we cover anime and games and this big thing for us. I've like something. I've got people just complain about some Shit for no reason in terms of like I'm going to complain because I thought I am being typecast or there's some clearly over site of racism or racial like implications by your drawings, animation, whatever you kind of put involved there, and then I complay on. Now people tell me now I makee. You're wrong,...

...you're the problem. Why? Because I didn't see as racist, like how could you, as a non black person, told me what racism is towards me as a black person? Dare? I mean, I feel like that carries like on in especially like in the the cold te nature that those of anime sex and pockets health is quite nuts and it's kind of disgusting when I think what but I'd also believe that, on the flip side, that black culture and pop culture and has helped push anime globally and maybe in the arrogance where I feel like if there wasn't like like, okay, so all the time that black men and they're spiritual bondage of Naruto and Dragon Ball Z, I've like it's spiritual bondage, but it's one of the reasons why near Turn Dragon was Z are so big globally. Like it's because, like, like, it's been championed quite a bit by many of like the blacks of cultural groups. Thinking about this way, even when you think very from a simple perspective. Look at all the big celebrities that talk about the Rutto, Talk About Dragon Wall zy in the public eye. Mean, you got guys at Michael B Jordan, you got guys like Israel, Adisnia. Yeah, stand mores like Benjamin Mindy, yeah, Curt Zoomor, you got make the stallion Boyega, and contrast that with the biggest of you know, the white celebrities out there are talking about, you know, these influential anime how many can you think of off the top of your head? Yeah, which just goes back to the pet that black culture is pop culture. Yeah, nothing's popular until like that beside it is. Yeah, I'm not aout that's it. Even so, the massive push that the fact that black to I can become a thing in itself is one of the thing. Yeah, but the fact that, like the media push that it can bring about, like in terms of making videos, trained terms of making dances trend, making music go global, like make the sellings, like say that I'm not going to put a lot of her growth on on black people support make stallion, but there is black people put make selling and she's not for cultural said. I'm I've been in ards animals, what I grew up and did pop right now I can let us, let's pusher even more now. It's like it's like a lot of these like you, like Chris said, these big celebrities style are black, are speaking about there the animal like so freely. It's just like, well, if so, if I feel like I'm misrepresented, I should have the right to talk about it and not be made to be like, not to be demonized and no stressized. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I think a part of the backlash as well comes in the fact that anime or anime fandom as like a subculture, similarly to like gaming, is usually that it's getting better, more getting better. Now. This is less gate gatekeeping now, but it's still the perceived main demographic dis store. That why young adult males like he feels like they're being attacked anytime they see the word diversity in any forms. I think that's where it just comes from, like it's just like this. I feel like this is what I say a lot, but it's just they just haven't done the reading. So like that fine, that sort. It comes from it. We get it. This diff between, if it's between experiencing racism as a concept and as an actual thing that people go through, like if yours one you just eat race them, is just like it's just a a morphous concept. It's not tangible. HMM. That's how you react to things like this. But if you're someone who's modernized but actually has some kind of experience with racism, especially firsthand, it's going to be different. Some people, some people either get it or they weren't. From nothing. Yeah, and that was this, that simple, right. I saw the dislikes on that, videon. I wasn't surprised and the comments made no sense. Yeah, man, we can't have anything, we can do anything. It's just it is. But yeah, I think that's another reason why I get more excited about studios and an maybe made by black creators, even if I don't feel like a particularly interested in the yeah, Yoko, I'm still happy to exist and they're adding to the adding to the landscape was that of one that came out on Netflix, the steam punk one, kind of busters, the Shawn Thomas. It's not good. Yeah, it's as in like stories, bad, but I mean I like the animation. Yeah, looks great, I'll give it reminds me of try gun in terms of animation. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, again, we...

...love to see it regardless. I'm here to look. Bro, you probably content, no matter how bad it is. I'm going to retweet it, Bro, like we're rooting for everybody black bro like black black. Mediocrity is a thing and I'm here to support it. Absolutely. Always have to be excellent, please, sometimes you can be average and that's it, and that's okay, Bro, like little support you, Bro, just let us not that your average and is cool. Bro. Yeah, but I think, I mean, I think to like to run it off your let's just kind of talk about I think we touched on it in terms of everyone's individual for black top. Three black characters that have like that are notable within their series or notable to you, what like? Name three that you can think of? And anime? Yeah, in an me and gaming or just the's. Yes, your anime and gaming make it easier. HMM. I'm saying one of mine, and as much as this controversial, I think stars from final fancy, the team. That's one blacking. Yeah, the Black Guy that sast his that son's become a facy. I would like he I feel like he's like very much a like when Christal talking about like he's a normal black guy, that he's a normal black parent. He's just a black parent. To me, is like Dad. Yeah, like he's worried, you're trying to figure out what's going to be, trying to get your son back, trying to help your son, like he's Bro. He's going through life, distraught, Bro, and he's like the guys are making I rush. It's like, Bro, what you guys are doing does not make sense to me. Need the charge and I also put but I do not condone every single thing you're doing. And that, to me, is like that when people are Oh yeah, I wish a horror form and like black people didn't do that. SAWS is that. It starts as a bit much for me, but I'll go along with it. Just that you guys get killed, I'm about the back here, ready to run. I've had that's what that's what makes him so relable. He's just a he's a normal black dad. That's cool. I'm still thinking. I didn't think be this difficult. But you say three, okay, but we're not free. He's three. Look at my books off, because what am I gonna hear? You think's got bookshelves? I got shit. Black influential. Actually, yeah, it just in terms of like getting really excited when you see this character for the first time. Cj from son Andreas was a ble your yeah, yeah, just stop the game in general. Yeah, did you funk soundtrack? The references tons like that culture that, even as a kid growing up in the UK, obviously influenced a lot by the US. The US is pop culture, especially as that people take where you get. So, Ye, I think Sant Andreas, as a kid was very influential. Yeah, I mean, I thought I was going to say a canary again, but I mean whatever. I mean. We've read you like wax about Great Canary. Okay, see someone we wrote about Sam. I'm after we can't speak about and to what? Killer benies wraps, yea, excuse me, no, no, no, Oh God, killk from Suta. He was very cool character. Oh yeah, Ye, to the pots, I think, to take a b just like character design in general. So just it translates to the black characters. To Answer Ans, he's a snake wasn't. WHO's on this CUZ and black we're gonna we're Gona Cuz a slide. I like, he's on my he's on his Mike. Yeah, he's like that. Well, how black beard, I was going to say say that, like, you know, he's look, he's just smart villain that stood the test of time. He has a very okay, good, bad. I mean you know, you know this is bad. I shouldn't be struggling to think like this. You know what it is. When we stop recording, you immediately have like ten examples. That's what's going to happen. Mohammad Ave don't yea, I like him. Don't give wrong barry it. Yeah, but Bart as, he told us, the character. Sure, he's very annoying to me. I like how he looks in the remake. He looks great. What, Gannon do guy's kind of stop black? Yes, he is. Oh, fuck you, man Ale. Just the GRUDAS are black. You're is a black FAM are you serious? The GURUDA, even even that like roal world that references. They're easy, like they're like middles or something. Coming to about love. I cour from bleach, the guy that has the cucumber as a banker. I watched beach. Oh my God, Chris Mi Chico. Oh,...

...yeah, I'm sorry, I thought I thought you guys are perhaps he avoiding saying. I've been a bit rattled by this, but the whole time I believe anything of her. But yeah, okay, yeah, who did I see it before? I said CEJ from San Jay as the Chico. For me, she could to Hatchin mm Mohammad off, though Mohammad Abdul Got William Nelson from your Rogand dudly Dudley, because he's black and British. Dudley. He doesn't want to be of Jeffrey from fresh prince, when I was on man, was based on Frank Bruno's like that Chris Chrishy bank cut that that's the one crissy bag has to be. Yeah, I asked the question. Is Cascar back and I have not read Bissert, but it's really hard to say. I mean I was as black like I probably say no, HMM. See's the thing is that it's really hard. I because is it? Does that puss have a Tan because they're just, you know, non Japanese? or I mean it's like she's a mercenary, so it would make sense for her to have a time. Yeah, that's one. A great discussion, guys. That's really fun. Yes, everything, more of this during the month from Hookteh. We're keeping it black. Any black, black all the way. Black, spooky, but mostly black. All October. Stay tuned and black and squeaky, black and spooky. I'm speaky and black in speaking. So yeah, I queen. This is Blacktober for US LEX October. Yeah, cool, but yeah, I've been tied. I think Chris and I've been prime and we have been for ISA. Could year.

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